‘We can amend, not throw away 1999 Constitution’

Professor Oserheimen Osunbor

Former governor of Edo State, Professor  Oserheimen Osunbor, currently chairman of Nigeria Law Reform Commission, talks about the recent happenings on the polity and why he believes the ongoing national conference is necessary. Excerpts:

How has it been since you left the Edo government house?
Life has been very good. As you can see  I am not idle;  I am here now as the chairman of the Nigeria Law  Reform  Commission.  I thank God for the opportunities He has given me in the past,  I pray that he will continue to show favour  to me in the years ahead, so life has been good.
Have you been giving advice to Governor Oshiomhole or  you have been shut out of government?
Well, your reference to the governor suggests my contributions towards governance of Edo State. You know that the governor in March  of 2012  extended the olive branch to me  by visiting me in Iruekpen and since then our relationship

has been quite cordial and I have not spared any opportunity  in expressing my views  on the fact that Adams Oshiomhole has done well  and I believe that irrespective of political differences , if an elected official is doing well we must set political differences aside  to commend him and I believe Edo State governor has done well  and the state has been the better for it .  I want  to see other opposition people being able to commend when there is reason to commend  and of course to condemn when things don’t appear to be going well, so I have used the opportunity to meet with the governor , commend him for the good work he is doing and also to suggest  to him other  areas I think his intervention  is needed particularly in some ongoing projects  across  the state  with specific reference to projects which he  committed himself to do in my Senatorial district  and in particular in Ekpoma  which is where I come from. There were lots of projects that we had penciled down  for implementation before  my exit , he has publicly  indicated his willingness  to continue   to execute those projects , I want to  encourage him to  honour his words so that before his exit he will be able to deliver those projects  to the people of Edo . To the leadership of my party the PDP, I have let them know what the problem  of the  PDP in Edo  is and now every Nigerian knows what the problem of PDP is in Edo State,  so I do hope that the political leadership will have the courage  and the will to tackle what the problem of PDP is in Edo State  and by extension the problem of governance in Edo state
Is the PDP in Edo State moving in the right direction so far?
As I said there is a big impediment to the  progress of PDP in Edo State and until that impediment is removed  or something is done to overcome that impediment, I am afraid the PDP in Edo State will continue to  suffer electoral misfortune.
Do you still have an eye on the governorship seat?
We don’t know, 2016 is still far, all eyes now are on 2015 Presidential election, that is what matters at the moment, after 2015 we can begin to talk about 2016.
Do you think PDP can win Edo state in the presidential election?
As I said earlier,  deep down in the minds of many people in Edo State  including many people in APC now,  they would love to be in PDP. You will remember that in  2003  PDP controlled the state house of assembly, PDP had 8 out of  nine  members of the  House of Representatives , PDP had all the three Senators , PDP  controlled all the local government councils of Edo State. Now the story is different, seriously speaking I think that this misfortune of  PDP in Edo State is attributable to one person, people know who has caused this misfortune of PDP in Edo State, I don’t want to mention names, until something is done about this person to ensure that PDP is rescued from his hands  am afraid the future doesn’t look very bright for the PDP in the state speaking in terms of electoral victory
People have often talked of corruption, do you think we have enough  laws in the country to tackle corruption?
I believe  there are lots of provisions in our law  to tackle corruption. I am not saying that those  laws are hundred percent adequate  but I think that  the legal framework for tackling corruption in Nigeria  exists and can work;  what is lacking is the political will,  but some other persons may want to describe it as the value system  in Nigeria, perhaps  within our culture , what I mean by this is why many Nigerians are quick  to condemn acts of corruption  perpetrated by other communities or other sections of the country  they are less vocal   about   corruption perpetrated  by one of their own , the  tendency is  for  communities  or for people within certain areas  to try to shield  their own;  they will always use  ethnicity or place of origin  as a defence,  whip up sentiments  make sure that their own does not get  justice  even when they have been apprehended and prosecuted  or indicted  because of allegations of  corruption, so I hope the ongoing national conference will find time  to dwell on this issue. The big question is; are Nigerians actually ready to fight corruption? How do we intend  to eradicate  corruption in our country? Corruption within the law enforcement agencies  is one issue,  corruption within the judiciary is another issue, so  even if the corrupt officer has been apprehended, is being prosecuted , if there is corruption on the part of the judge  then no result will be achieved  instead you will find that corruption will be self perpetuating, so I think we should look at corruption in all its entire spectrum  of the problem. People try  to sermonize  about corruption in this country, I want us to look at the issues holistically and not to sermonize.  Talking about the legal framework you recall that the very first bill that President Obasanjo introduced to the  National Assembly  in 1999 was this anti corruption bill which led to the passage of the ICPC  Act .  We now have the ICPC and the  EFCC  Act, the National Assembly has amended the EFCC Act many times in order to tighten the loose ends.
  The law reform commission is also  embarking on the reform of the ICPC Act   and also the reform of the penal code  and the criminal code  with respect to this issue of corruption and other matters. So we have quite a lot on the ground  in terms of the legal  mechanism for addressing corruption, I think for me the most important thing that is lacking is the  culture or value system among the people  which must be corrected if we  are to succeed  in this war on corruption.
Do we really need the National Conference?
 To answer your question directly, any conference  at all can take place in a democracy. There are so many  conferences  taking place all the time  even international conferences take place in Nigeria, law  conferences , economic conferences, so if there is  national conference to  discuss issues about Nigeria  for me it’s not a  senseless exercise  and as they say it is better to jaw jaw than to war war . If people say they are interested in discussing the future of Nigeria, fine  let them discuss it.  It is not an aberration to have a national conference where there is a legislature. There has been conferences in the past since 1950  right before Nigeria’s independence   and I do believe that even after this one in future may be  after 20 or 30 years from  now  there will still be another conference, there can be no end to people talking to one another  on the issue of its  relevance   with respect to the amendment of the constitution  making in Nigeria.  I feel  that we already have a constitution in place . There is a valid and a subsisting  constitution  in Nigeria, until that constitution is  overthrown, and God forbid that this constitution should be overthrown, unless this Republic is overthrown  and God forbid that this Republic should be overthrown, the 1999 Constitution will remain  the legal valid  constitution in Nigeria , the  constitution itself in section  9 envisages that it is not perfect  and therefore prescribes how it can be improved upon  by way of alterations or amendments. We’ve  seen that  this is possible because amendments had been made to the Nigerian Constitution , so I think that maybe at the end of the day,  the National Assembly and Houses of Assembly of the states will now see from whatever views  Nigerians have offered  what they think will be valuable  for the purpose of amending the constitution. Even  the American  constitution which has been in existence since about the  1780  or there about  has been amended 27 times. The South  African Constitution was adopted on the  8th of  May  1996  but it’s been amended  17  times. Nobody has called for the abrogation of  the South African Constitution, there is already a proposal which has been accepted for an amendment for the 18th times to the South African Constitution.  Nigeria’s  constitution came into effect  in 1999;   we’ve  amended it only about three or four times   and people are already  saying throw it away, you can’t throw it away, you can amend it,  as a lawyer, I know that only a revolution  or a military coup  can throw away the Constitution, because the judiciary has taken an oath  to defend the Constitution , Mr. President  swore an oath  to uphold and defend the 1999 Constitution, members of the National Assembly  have sworn to uphold and defend the constitution  including the Houses of  Assembly. I find it difficult to see how you can  go round all this legal position ,  people are talking of a brand new constitution,  I was listening to a debate in the National Assembly some days ago  where  some  people were saying any Nigerian can  propose a new constitution, I  shuddered when I hear those kinds of remarks , a constitution is different from a bill  or an Act of the National Assembly which  anybody  can present .  The Constitution is the basic and fundamental law ,  it is the legal thing that hold the fabrics of  the  society together,  once those fabrics that hold the society together are removed  or eroded, the society will collapse.  Talking of a brand new constitution is recipe  to destroy  the 4th Republic. The abrogation of the 1999 constitution in my view as a lawyer is the end of the 4th Republic  because  Republic is  based on the Constitution.   The  1963  constitution ushered in the first Republic, the 1979 constitution ushered in the 2nd Republic , the  1989 constitution ushered in what I called the aborted 3rd Republic  while the 1999 constitution  ushered in the  4th Republic. If we are going to have another constitution   it means we are going to have a 5th Republic , you can only change from one Republic to the other through a revolution  or military coup de tat  which no Nigerian is praying for now , so I do hope that people know what they are talking about  when they say abrogate the 1999 constitution because that will mean  abrogating the 4th  Republic, so these are some of the issues which I think those involved in such debate will consider  before they put us in un- intended  crisis.
As chairman of Nigeria Law Reform Commission,  what aspect of our laws do you think need urgent reforms?
Those  are the things we are doing  at the Law Reform Commission. Right now we are looking at  Public Order Act,  we are looking at  the issue of torture,  the issue of rights of people who are detained  vis-a-vis the powers of the police and law enforcement agencies , because the issue of human rights is very current now .  We are looking at the Federal Road Safety Act [FRSC]  because there has been lots of questions as to the extent of their powers , what they do and what they cannot do  recently there was a court ruling that even this number plates  they are coming out with is illegal , we want to revisit the Act and see what we can do about it , there is the issue of the dishonored  cheques   Acts  which is also one of the projects we have for this year  etc.